Discussion:
[Grml] Request for Comments / Poll: removal of LaTeX on grml
Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 10:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi grml users,

especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.

I'm talking about the following Debian packages:

| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite

I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
your opinion through this poll:

http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn

Thanks!

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Jason White
2009-06-15 10:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 23:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason White
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
DVD drives aren't always available on server systems as well as on
many laptops and workstations you've to deal with in rescue
scenarios. On the other hand we've already 3 different flavours, all
of them as 32bit and 64bit version available. Adding another flavour
which provides additional software would also increase the work with
regards to packaging, testing and distribution (mirror, sources).

So no, I don't plan a DVD version right now.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Maurice McCarthy
2009-06-16 09:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.

I have no problem with removing latex.

Regards
Moss
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Michael Prokop
2009-06-16 09:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maurice McCarthy
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.
Yeah, doodle seems to have serious problems with upgrading their
systems. Very bad timing for us, I'm sorry. :(
Post by Maurice McCarthy
I have no problem with removing latex.
Ok, I hope doodle is available soon again. Would be great if you
could retry accessing the poll within the next few hours/days, I
plan to keep the poll open until everyone of you had the chance to
provide feedback.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Michael Prokop
2009-06-16 09:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maurice McCarthy
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.
Yeah, doodle seems to have serious problems with upgrading their
systems. Very bad timing for us, I'm sorry. :(
Post by Maurice McCarthy
I have no problem with removing latex.
Ok, I hope doodle is available soon again. Would be great if you
could retry accessing the poll within the next few hours/days, I
plan to keep the poll open until everyone of you had the chance to
provide feedback.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Michael Prokop
2009-06-16 09:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maurice McCarthy
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.
Yeah, doodle seems to have serious problems with upgrading their
systems. Very bad timing for us, I'm sorry. :(
Post by Maurice McCarthy
I have no problem with removing latex.
Ok, I hope doodle is available soon again. Would be great if you
could retry accessing the poll within the next few hours/days, I
plan to keep the poll open until everyone of you had the chance to
provide feedback.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Maurice McCarthy
2009-06-16 09:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.

I have no problem with removing latex.

Regards
Moss
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Maurice McCarthy
2009-06-16 09:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Tried several times to connect to this poll but
server must be down, I guess.

I have no problem with removing latex.

Regards
Moss
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 23:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason White
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
DVD drives aren't always available on server systems as well as on
many laptops and workstations you've to deal with in rescue
scenarios. On the other hand we've already 3 different flavours, all
of them as 32bit and 64bit version available. Adding another flavour
which provides additional software would also increase the work with
regards to packaging, testing and distribution (mirror, sources).

So no, I don't plan a DVD version right now.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 23:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason White
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
DVD drives aren't always available on server systems as well as on
many laptops and workstations you've to deal with in rescue
scenarios. On the other hand we've already 3 different flavours, all
of them as 32bit and 64bit version available. Adding another flavour
which provides additional software would also increase the work with
regards to packaging, testing and distribution (mirror, sources).

So no, I don't plan a DVD version right now.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Werner Flamme
2009-06-15 12:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Well, for me the choice is easy. Since I use grml mostly as an emergency
boot system, I do not need LaTeX. And when I use grml as a regular
working base, I can install LaTeX via some installation sources quite
quickly.

Of course you can build a "grml-big" (grmbl :-)) version of grml with
all those things some users would like to add to grml ;-). Or build a
"personal grml" via web interface - the grml base plus checkboxes for
umpty application packages :-)

Regards,
Werner
Michael Whapples
2009-06-16 12:49:35 UTC
Permalink
As a live CD I have no problem with removing LaTeX as I normally use it
as a rescue system. When I normally need LaTeX I will be using a HD
installation (whatever distro it happens to be) and so LaTeX can be
installed easily from a package repository if not available.

For the few times where LaTeX may be needed on a live CD I guess it
wouldn't be too difficult to create a modified version (although I
haven't actually tried making a modified iso).

Michael Whapples
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks!
regards,
-mika-
Michael Prokop
2009-06-29 12:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
[...]
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks for participating!

I just closed the poll (100 participants is such great number for
calculating percentages ;)). The final result:

64 votes for: Remove LaTeX from grml
20 votes for: Keep LaTeX on grml
15 votes for: grml devs, do whatever you think might be the best
1 invalid vote (user decided to select none of the valid options)

So just 20% voted for keeping LaTeX - as a result I removed the
LaTeX (related) packages from grml (GRML_FULL) for now. The
grml-live build framework provides a new class named LATEX now:

http://git.grml.org/?p=grml-live.git;a=commit;h=f6622a6
Drop LaTeX packages from GRML_FULL; provide LATEX class

This means that it's possible to build grml providing LaTeX on your
own by just enabling the LATEX class in the grml-live cmdline.

The current daily snapshots of grml are build *without* LaTeX
already:

http://daily.grml.org/

Note: this doesn't necessarily mean that LaTeX has gone from grml
forever. For now we will drop LaTeX and work towards the next stable
release but let's see what future brings. :)

regards,
-mika- - on behalf of the grml-team
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 10:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi grml users,

especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.

I'm talking about the following Debian packages:

| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite

I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
your opinion through this poll:

http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn

Thanks!

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
-------------- next part --------------
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Jason White
2009-06-15 10:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
Werner Flamme
2009-06-15 12:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Well, for me the choice is easy. Since I use grml mostly as an emergency
boot system, I do not need LaTeX. And when I use grml as a regular
working base, I can install LaTeX via some installation sources quite
quickly.

Of course you can build a "grml-big" (grmbl :-)) version of grml with
all those things some users would like to add to grml ;-). Or build a
"personal grml" via web interface - the grml base plus checkboxes for
umpty application packages :-)

Regards,
Werner
Michael Whapples
2009-06-16 12:49:35 UTC
Permalink
As a live CD I have no problem with removing LaTeX as I normally use it
as a rescue system. When I normally need LaTeX I will be using a HD
installation (whatever distro it happens to be) and so LaTeX can be
installed easily from a package repository if not available.

For the few times where LaTeX may be needed on a live CD I guess it
wouldn't be too difficult to create a modified version (although I
haven't actually tried making a modified iso).

Michael Whapples
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks!
regards,
-mika-
Michael Prokop
2009-06-29 12:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
[...]
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks for participating!

I just closed the poll (100 participants is such great number for
calculating percentages ;)). The final result:

64 votes for: Remove LaTeX from grml
20 votes for: Keep LaTeX on grml
15 votes for: grml devs, do whatever you think might be the best
1 invalid vote (user decided to select none of the valid options)

So just 20% voted for keeping LaTeX - as a result I removed the
LaTeX (related) packages from grml (GRML_FULL) for now. The
grml-live build framework provides a new class named LATEX now:

http://git.grml.org/?p=grml-live.git;a=commit;h=f6622a6
Drop LaTeX packages from GRML_FULL; provide LATEX class

This means that it's possible to build grml providing LaTeX on your
own by just enabling the LATEX class in the grml-live cmdline.

The current daily snapshots of grml are build *without* LaTeX
already:

http://daily.grml.org/

Note: this doesn't necessarily mean that LaTeX has gone from grml
forever. For now we will drop LaTeX and work towards the next stable
release but let's see what future brings. :)

regards,
-mika- - on behalf of the grml-team
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Michael Prokop
2009-06-15 10:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi grml users,

especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.

I'm talking about the following Debian packages:

| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite

I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
your opinion through this poll:

http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn

Thanks!

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
-------------- next part --------------
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Jason White
2009-06-15 10:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
This opens up a broader issue: are you considering a version of GRML/GRML64
that is not limited by the capacity of a CD? For example, many of us have DVD
drives or flash memory devices that can store several gigabytes of data, so
maybe it's time for a GRML/GRML64 large distribution so you can add more
software to it, then decide what to leave out in the CD-sized version.
Werner Flamme
2009-06-15 12:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Well, for me the choice is easy. Since I use grml mostly as an emergency
boot system, I do not need LaTeX. And when I use grml as a regular
working base, I can install LaTeX via some installation sources quite
quickly.

Of course you can build a "grml-big" (grmbl :-)) version of grml with
all those things some users would like to add to grml ;-). Or build a
"personal grml" via web interface - the grml base plus checkboxes for
umpty application packages :-)

Regards,
Werner
Michael Whapples
2009-06-16 12:49:35 UTC
Permalink
As a live CD I have no problem with removing LaTeX as I normally use it
as a rescue system. When I normally need LaTeX I will be using a HD
installation (whatever distro it happens to be) and so LaTeX can be
installed easily from a package repository if not available.

For the few times where LaTeX may be needed on a live CD I guess it
wouldn't be too difficult to create a modified version (although I
haven't actually tried making a modified iso).

Michael Whapples
Post by Michael Prokop
Hi grml users,
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
| auctex catdvi ctioga dvipng gnuhtml2latex lacheck latex-beamer
| latexmk latex-mk latextug latex-xcolor libkpathsea4 libtioga-ruby
| libtioga-ruby1.8 pdfjam pgf preview-latex-style tetex-bin tex-common
| texify texlive texlive-base texlive-base-bin texlive-common
| texlive-doc-base texlive-extra-utils texlive-fonts-recommended
| texlive-lang-german texlive-latex-base texlive-latex-recommended
| texpower tth vim-latexsuite
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks!
regards,
-mika-
Michael Prokop
2009-06-29 12:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Prokop
especially on grml64 we are running out of space and I'm thinking
about removing LaTeX from grml, which would save us 100MB of
uncompressed space.
[...]
Post by Michael Prokop
I'd like to know *your* opinion on this issue, so please let us know
http://doodle.com/3dnzvhv43tmhpcpn
Thanks for participating!

I just closed the poll (100 participants is such great number for
calculating percentages ;)). The final result:

64 votes for: Remove LaTeX from grml
20 votes for: Keep LaTeX on grml
15 votes for: grml devs, do whatever you think might be the best
1 invalid vote (user decided to select none of the valid options)

So just 20% voted for keeping LaTeX - as a result I removed the
LaTeX (related) packages from grml (GRML_FULL) for now. The
grml-live build framework provides a new class named LATEX now:

http://git.grml.org/?p=grml-live.git;a=commit;h=f6622a6
Drop LaTeX packages from GRML_FULL; provide LATEX class

This means that it's possible to build grml providing LaTeX on your
own by just enabling the LATEX class in the grml-live cmdline.

The current daily snapshots of grml are build *without* LaTeX
already:

http://daily.grml.org/

Note: this doesn't necessarily mean that LaTeX has gone from grml
forever. For now we will drop LaTeX and work towards the next stable
release but let's see what future brings. :)

regards,
-mika- - on behalf of the grml-team
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
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