[Grml] Using stable Debian brnaches for packages on GRML

[Keith Hinton]

If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?
Thanks!

GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Regards, --Keith

[Michael Prokop]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

It *might* work but probably just fails, because grml is based on
Debian/unstable and not on Debian/stable.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Because people might need it on a live-system. Just because Apache
is shipped you don't have to run a public server, I'm for example
using apache/lighttpd/... listening on the loopback interface only
for developing purposes.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

True. But who said you should run grml on your server?!
As stated on http://grml.org/grml2hd/ =>

| Notice that grml is based on Debian unstable, so you really should
| be familiar with Debian unstable if you plan to use grml as a
| harddisk system.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

If you can't deal with Debian unstable: yes.

Oh and just because you're using (plain) Debian doesn't mean that
you couldn't take a known-to-work grml-kernel.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?

The *released* *stable* versions of grml tend to be what they are
supposed to be: stable. If you *install* it and upgrade it on your
own you are expected to know what you're doing.

Post by Keith Hinton
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?

Short: Debian unstable doesn't provide security-support.

Post by Keith Hinton
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Sure, but that's a feature, not a bug. :)

Lenny based grml images are available as daily snapshots:

http://daily.grml.org/

Though grml always was and still mainly is a *live* system. It just
provides the *option* to install it to harddisk if you want to and
know how to deal with it. If you are just interested in some few
components of grml for your plain Debian installation it's pretty
easy to get them.

Sometimes I wish I would have made grml2hd a bit harder to use. ;-)

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://lists.mur.at/pipermail/grml/attachments/20090308/c4fed701/attachment.pgp

[Jason White]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

I'm not sure, but you can just use GRML to install a Debian Stable system to
your hard disk with Debootstrap if you really care about that level of
stability.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Debian Stable moves too slowly for most of us, including the GRML developers,
I assume.

Unstable is much more reliable than you might think, and Debian Testing even
more so. I know of people who run Debian Testing on their servers without any
trouble.

With respect, please do your homework before criticizing decisions made by
people who are more knowledgeable than you are. It would have been better to
ask the question instead of proclaiming that certain packages (or versions of
packages) shouldn't be included in a distribution.

Post by Keith Hinton
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?

Not a problem.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

That's somewhat extreme, and as I said, Debian Testing is considered by some
to be sufficiently stable for server use.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

I run Debian Sid on my desktop and laptop, have done so for almost ten years,
and I've rarely encountered a problem that took more than a few minutes to
fix. Most of the time, it works well, and I just keep upgrading it every week
or two.

Your needs and tolerance for the occasional package downgrade may be
different. I don't know.

[Keith Hinton]

If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?
Thanks!

GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Regards, --Keith

[Michael Prokop]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

It *might* work but probably just fails, because grml is based on
Debian/unstable and not on Debian/stable.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Because people might need it on a live-system. Just because Apache
is shipped you don't have to run a public server, I'm for example
using apache/lighttpd/... listening on the loopback interface only
for developing purposes.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

True. But who said you should run grml on your server?!
As stated on http://grml.org/grml2hd/ =>

| Notice that grml is based on Debian unstable, so you really should
| be familiar with Debian unstable if you plan to use grml as a
| harddisk system.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

If you can't deal with Debian unstable: yes.

Oh and just because you're using (plain) Debian doesn't mean that
you couldn't take a known-to-work grml-kernel.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?

The *released* *stable* versions of grml tend to be what they are
supposed to be: stable. If you *install* it and upgrade it on your
own you are expected to know what you're doing.

Post by Keith Hinton
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?

Short: Debian unstable doesn't provide security-support.

Post by Keith Hinton
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Sure, but that's a feature, not a bug. :)

Lenny based grml images are available as daily snapshots:

http://daily.grml.org/

Though grml always was and still mainly is a *live* system. It just
provides the *option* to install it to harddisk if you want to and
know how to deal with it. If you are just interested in some few
components of grml for your plain Debian installation it's pretty
easy to get them.

Sometimes I wish I would have made grml2hd a bit harder to use. ;-)

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
URL: <http://ml.grml.org/pipermail/grml/attachments/20090308/c4fed701/attachment-0002.pgp>

[Jason White]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

I'm not sure, but you can just use GRML to install a Debian Stable system to
your hard disk with Debootstrap if you really care about that level of
stability.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Debian Stable moves too slowly for most of us, including the GRML developers,
I assume.

Unstable is much more reliable than you might think, and Debian Testing even
more so. I know of people who run Debian Testing on their servers without any
trouble.

With respect, please do your homework before criticizing decisions made by
people who are more knowledgeable than you are. It would have been better to
ask the question instead of proclaiming that certain packages (or versions of
packages) shouldn't be included in a distribution.

Post by Keith Hinton
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?

Not a problem.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

That's somewhat extreme, and as I said, Debian Testing is considered by some
to be sufficiently stable for server use.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

I run Debian Sid on my desktop and laptop, have done so for almost ten years,
and I've rarely encountered a problem that took more than a few minutes to
fix. Most of the time, it works well, and I just keep upgrading it every week
or two.

Your needs and tolerance for the occasional package downgrade may be
different. I don't know.

[Keith Hinton]

If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?
Thanks!

GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Regards, --Keith

[Michael Prokop]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

It *might* work but probably just fails, because grml is based on
Debian/unstable and not on Debian/stable.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Because people might need it on a live-system. Just because Apache
is shipped you don't have to run a public server, I'm for example
using apache/lighttpd/... listening on the loopback interface only
for developing purposes.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

True. But who said you should run grml on your server?!
As stated on http://grml.org/grml2hd/ =>

| Notice that grml is based on Debian unstable, so you really should
| be familiar with Debian unstable if you plan to use grml as a
| harddisk system.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

If you can't deal with Debian unstable: yes.

Oh and just because you're using (plain) Debian doesn't mean that
you couldn't take a known-to-work grml-kernel.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML is rather cool, but the fact that you folks have included
services on it at all is a bit..concerning.
What if grep or something was to break on GRML?

The *released* *stable* versions of grml tend to be what they are
supposed to be: stable. If you *install* it and upgrade it on your
own you are expected to know what you're doing.

Post by Keith Hinton
Considering that you're based on the Sid branch. How about security
related updates (wich are not provided for Debian-unstable packages)
in the first place for users installing GRML directly to hard-drive?

Short: Debian unstable doesn't provide security-support.

Post by Keith Hinton
Despite GRML being an extremely cool Linux system, it is still based off Sid!

Sure, but that's a feature, not a bug. :)

Lenny based grml images are available as daily snapshots:

http://daily.grml.org/

Though grml always was and still mainly is a *live* system. It just
provides the *option* to install it to harddisk if you want to and
know how to deal with it. If you are just interested in some few
components of grml for your plain Debian installation it's pretty
easy to get them.

Sometimes I wish I would have made grml2hd a bit harder to use. ;-)

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
URL: <http://ml.grml.org/pipermail/grml/attachments/20090308/c4fed701/attachment-0003.pgp>

[Jason White]

Post by Keith Hinton
If you wish to use GRML as a hard disk system, what happens if you
attempt to use stable Debian packages to avoid breaking things?

I'm not sure, but you can just use GRML to install a Debian Stable system to
your hard disk with Debootstrap if you really care about that level of
stability.

Post by Keith Hinton
Why Apache and stuff is included on a Debian-unstable system is beyond
me. Especially because the software should not be included in the
first place.

Debian Stable moves too slowly for most of us, including the GRML developers,
I assume.

Unstable is much more reliable than you might think, and Debian Testing even
more so. I know of people who run Debian Testing on their servers without any
trouble.

With respect, please do your homework before criticizing decisions made by
people who are more knowledgeable than you are. It would have been better to
ask the question instead of proclaiming that certain packages (or versions of
packages) shouldn't be included in a distribution.

Post by Keith Hinton
People may get the idea that servers can be ran on grml!
For a blind user that has discovered GRML, the user may go running
programs/services never intended for use on GRML!
What do you all think of this?

Not a problem.

Post by Keith Hinton
I have read the Debian unstable FAQ, and the answer in that document
is "Are you insaine? No!" To the question about "Should I run
Debian-Sid on my server?"

That's somewhat extreme, and as I said, Debian Testing is considered by some
to be sufficiently stable for server use.

Post by Keith Hinton
GRML includes Speakup accessibility, wich I require in my Linux
kernels; and often don't have time to compile a Linux kernel,
therefore I use GRML. Would I be better off installing a plain Debian
system rather than GRML perhaps on my laptop When I get back in the
next few weeks to set it up?

I run Debian Sid on my desktop and laptop, have done so for almost ten years,
and I've rarely encountered a problem that took more than a few minutes to
fix. Most of the time, it works well, and I just keep upgrading it every week
or two.

Your needs and tolerance for the occasional package downgrade may be
different. I don't know.