[Grml] grml as host system

[Philippe Delavalade]

Hi.

I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the
new release.

Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...

It's sad.

[Michael Prokop]

Post by Philippe Delavalade
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the
new release.

If someone is stepping up to help us maintaining that we can bring
it back.

Post by Philippe Delavalade
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...

Which packages exactly are missing?

Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when
building LFS?

regards,
-mika-
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[Philippe Delavalade]

Post by Michael Prokop

Post by Philippe Delavalade
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the
new release.

If someone is stepping up to help us maintaining that we can bring
it back.

I fear that I can't do this ; I'm just an enduser...

Post by Michael Prokop

Post by Philippe Delavalade
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...

Which packages exactly are missing?

For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.

Post by Michael Prokop
Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when
building LFS?

I'd never built lfs with grml but with debian testing ; but many people ask
about a livecd as host system to do this. I have just verified the host
system requirements :

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/prologue/hostreqs.html

Regards.

[Michael Prokop]

Post by Philippe Delavalade

Post by Michael Prokop
Which packages exactly are missing?

For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.

Ok, running:

apt-get update ; apt-get install bison gcc m4 texinfo libc6-dev

on Grml 2011.12 release says it would require ~33MB of additional
disk space (all of those packages are required according to
version-check.sh of LFS).

Post by Philippe Delavalade

Post by Michael Prokop
Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when
building LFS?

I'd never built lfs with grml but with debian testing ; but many people ask
about a livecd as host system to do this. I have just verified the host
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/prologue/hostreqs.html

Thanks for the link.

Is there anyone out there interested in installing Linux From
Scratch (LFS) using Grml and actually did that with previous Grml
release?

regards,
-mika-
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[Ulrich Dangel]

Post by Philippe Delavalade

Post by Michael Prokop

Post by Philippe Delavalade
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...

Which packages exactly are missing?

For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.

You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically
you have a working network connection and can install the packages
anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that
without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship
these packages.

[Philippe Delavalade]

Post by Ulrich Dangel

Post by Philippe Delavalade

Post by Michael Prokop

Post by Philippe Delavalade
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...

Which packages exactly are missing?

For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.

You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically
you have a working network connection and can install the packages
anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that
without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship
these packages.

Yes but sources can be download with any system (not necessarly a linux
one)?; the most important is that the lfs build is long and often people
stop and restart later ; so, they'll have to update each time the missang
packages. And, one time, I have built on a computer with no network but it
was a long time ago and the lfs livecd was uptodate ; now, there's nomore
specific lfs livecd...

[John G. Heim]

I don't understand why you think removing the brltty boot option is so bad.
As a fellow blind systems administrator, that makes little sense to me. Its
easier to start brltty after booting is finished. Otherwise, you have to get
the timing just right. With the latest grml release, you don't even have to
guess when booting is finished. It plays a tone when its done. So wait for
the tone, press 'q' to quit the quick help menu, and type 'brltty'.

The only reason why starting brltty at the isolinux prompt could be
important is if you need access to the boot messages. But if you really need
access to the boot messages, you can use a serial console. And if you
really, really need braille during the boot process, you can always make
your own CD via grml-live.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Delavalade" <philippe.delavalade at sfr.fr>
To: <grml at ml.grml.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:42 AM
Subject: [Grml] grml as host system

Post by Philippe Delavalade
Hi.
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the
new release.
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
but now, important packages are missing...
It's sad.
--
Ph. Delavalade
_______________________________________________
Grml mailing list - Grml at ml.grml.org
http://ml.grml.org/mailman/listinfo/grml
join #grml on irc.freenode.org
grml-devel-blog: http://blog.grml.org/

[Philippe Delavalade]

Post by John G. Heim
I don't understand why you think removing the brltty boot option is
so bad. As a fellow blind systems administrator, that makes little
sense to me. Its easier to start brltty after booting is finished.
Otherwise, you have to get the timing just right. With the latest
grml release, you don't even have to guess when booting is finished.
It plays a tone when its done. So wait for the tone, press 'q' to
quit the quick help menu, and type 'brltty'.

I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :

grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso

and then, there's nothing to do !

Post by John G. Heim
The only reason why starting brltty at the isolinux prompt could be
important is if you need access to the boot messages. But if you
really need access to the boot messages, you can use a serial
console. And if you really, really need braille during the boot
process, you can always make your own CD via grml-live.

Yes but this is more complicated than using one command with grml2iso.

Regards.

[John G. Heim]

From: "Philippe Delavalade" <philippe.delavalade at sfr.fr>
To: <grml at ml.grml.org>

Post by Philippe Delavalade
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !

Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain why you
disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The way it works
now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type 'brltty'. There is less to
type and you don't have to worry about timing. How is the old way easier?

[Csillag Tamas]

Hi,

Post by John G. Heim
From: "Philippe Delavalade" <philippe.delavalade at sfr.fr>
To: <grml at ml.grml.org>

Post by Philippe Delavalade
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !

It is in the text you are quoting ^

Post by John G. Heim
Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain
why you disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The
way it works now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type
'brltty'. There is less to type and you don't have to worry about
timing. How is the old way easier?

He modified the default bootoptions so he had a version where on every
boot it was all setup without worrying about anything.

Regards,
cstamas

[Philippe Delavalade]

Post by John G. Heim
From: "Philippe Delavalade" <philippe.delavalade at sfr.fr>
To: <grml at ml.grml.org>

Post by Philippe Delavalade
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !

Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain
why you disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The
way it works now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type
'brltty'. There is less to type and you don't have to worry about
timing. How is the old way easier?

Maybe my english is too bad :-)

I type one grml2iso command ; I burn a CD and then, on aech boot, I have
exactly nothing to do.

[Ulrich Dangel]

* Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 14:25]:
Hi Philippe ,

JFTR we are currently discussing our decision regarding the brltty boot
option. We just discovered that the bootoption was for example already
according to http://mielke.cc/brltty/guidelines.html Christan
Hofstaedtler reported
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=653587 while
investigating the current state of brltty in Debian.

One small question does brltty really supports configuring itself via
the bootoption? Do you need any parameters like -b -d or -t at all if
you specify the brltty boot option in the commandline?

Post by Philippe Delavalade
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !

JFTR you can still do it:

1) Create a directory named /tmp/grml_overlay We will use grml2iso to
copy the content of this directory to the iso.
2) Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh)
3) Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty
4) run

grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso

The important option here is the scripts bootoption which will
automatically run scripts/grml.sh at startup. This allows you to
automatically start brltty on your own. The -c bootoption copies the
content from the specified directory directly onto the iso image
containing your script which will start brltty.


OVERLAY_DIR=/tmp/grml_overlay
mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"
mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts
vi "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh
chmod 755 $OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso

cheers,
Ulrich

[Philippe Delavalade]

Post by Ulrich Dangel
Hi Philippe ,

HI Ulrich.

Post by Ulrich Dangel
JFTR we are currently discussing our decision regarding the brltty boot
option. We just discovered that the bootoption was for example already
according to http://mielke.cc/brltty/guidelines.html Christan
Hofstaedtler reported
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=653587 while
investigating the current state of brltty in Debian.

I have no information about this ; I'll try to follow these links next week.

Post by Ulrich Dangel
One small question does brltty really supports configuring itself via
the bootoption?

Yes, perfectly for me with grml or debian.

Post by Ulrich Dangel
Do you need any parameters like -b -d or -t at all if
you specify the brltty boot option in the commandline?

I don't understand exactly what you mean ; nevertheless, I'll try to answer
as best as possible :

1) with the correct boot option (for me brltty=pm,usb:,fr_FR), there's
nothing more to do ;
2) without the boot option, after the tones in grml_2011.12, without any
boot option about language, I have to use the -t option on the
commandline?; but for someone connected with something else than usb,
the -b and -d options are mandatory.

I hope this is the answer you are waiting for :-)

Post by Ulrich Dangel

Post by Philippe Delavalade
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !

1) Create a directory named /tmp/grml_overlay We will use grml2iso to
copy the content of this directory to the iso.
2) Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh)
3) Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty

Shall I se the bootoption style or the commandline style ? I guess the
command line but...

Post by Ulrich Dangel
4) run
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso

I think you mean grml_2011.12.iso or is it a mistake from me ?

And in the -b parameter, shall I, for instance, type : "lang=fr scripts" ?

Post by Ulrich Dangel
The important option here is the scripts bootoption which will
automatically run scripts/grml.sh at startup. This allows you to
automatically start brltty on your own. The -c bootoption copies the
content from the specified directory directly onto the iso image
containing your script which will start brltty.

This is perfect for me but I fear it's a little complicated for other blind
people I know :-)

Post by Ulrich Dangel
OVERLAY_DIR=/tmp/grml_overlay
mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"
mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts
vi "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh

I should have used {$OVERLAY_DIR} or simply $OVERLAY_dir ; am I wrong ?

Post by Ulrich Dangel
chmod 755 $OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso

I'll try this as soon as possible but not this new year week-end.

Post by Ulrich Dangel
cheers,

Real thanks !

[Ulrich Dangel]

Post by Philippe Delavalade

Post by Ulrich Dangel
2) Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh)
3) Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty

Shall I se the bootoption style or the commandline style ? I guess the
command line but...

Post by Ulrich Dangel
4) run
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso
grml_2011.05.iso

I think you mean grml_2011.12.iso or is it a mistake from me ?

I used your parameter/iso name to make things more comprehensive. This
works with the 2011.05 iso as well but you can choose any Grml ISO image
you like.

Post by Philippe Delavalade
And in the -b parameter, shall I, for instance, type : "lang=fr scripts" ?

yes.

[William Gardella]

Philippe,

In addition to the option of remastering Grml with the tools you need, it can also be used as a "persistent" live system, with the modifications to the live filesystem saved to a partition or snapshot file, e.g. on a usb drive. &nbsp;This is what I would probably do to save my work over a days-long project such as building LFS; in fact, I have used Grml persistent systems for weeks or months.

Hope this helps.



On Dec 29, 2011 12:13 PM, Philippe Delavalade &lt;philippe.delavalade at sfr.fr&gt; wrote:

Le jeudi 29 d?cembre ? 14:21, Ulrich Dangel a ?crit :

&gt; * Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 13:17]:

&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build

&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous

&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; but now, important packages are missing...

&gt; &gt; &gt;

&gt; &gt; &gt; Which packages exactly are missing?

&gt; &gt;

&gt; &gt; For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.

&gt;

&gt; You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically

&gt; you have a working network connection and can install the packages

&gt; anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that

&gt; without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship

&gt; these packages.



Yes but sources can be download with any system (not necessarly a linux

one)&nbsp;; the most important is that the lfs build is long and often people

stop and restart later ; so, they'll have to update each time the missang

packages. And, one time, I have built on a computer with no network but it

was a long time ago and the lfs livecd was uptodate ; now, there's nomore

specific lfs livecd...
--
Ph. Delavalade

_______________________________________________

Grml mailing list - Grml at ml.grml.org

http://ml.grml.org/mailman/listinfo/grml

join #grml on irc.freenode.org

grml-devel-blog: http://blog.grml.org/


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[Ulrich Dangel]

* William Gardella wrote [29.12.11 18:49]:
Hi,

Post by William Gardella
Philippe,
In addition to the option of remastering Grml with the tools you need,
it can also be used as a "persistent" live system, with the
modifications to the live filesystem saved to a partition or snapshot
file, e.g. on a usb drive. &nbsp;This is what I would probably do to
save my work over a days-long project such as building LFS; in fact, I
have used Grml persistent systems for weeks or months.

Especially with persistency i see no need to add these packages to the
list. You install it once and the changes are written to your usb stick
- including the additional packages.

Ulrich