[Grml] grml-live vs. debian-live (vs. FAI)

Discussion:

Darshaka Pathirana

2009-05-06 09:21:15 UTC

Hi!

The subject says it all: I was trying to find out a short outline
why one should use the one or the other.

As far as I can unsterstand it after a short evaluation is that both
are able to do nearly the same. Both use debootstrap and are able to
define hooks and afterwards a ISO is created.

The advantage of grml-live seems to be the usage of the FAI-class
concept but debian-live seems to be the more "official" way to do it.

My motivation is a bit different than *-live and FAI provide. *-live
are intended to build a Live-CD and FAI deploys a system on a
running machine (by PXE or Boot-CD).

I do NOT need a bootable ISO. I need the possibility to install
Debian into a USB-Device or CF-Card. So I actually use the
base.tar.gz (created by FAI or by an other installation) to untar it
onto the target from my running system. Afterwards again some hooks
are run and the bootloader is installed. I think this is ridiculous!
There must be a better way.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks && HAND,
- Darsha

Michael Prokop

2009-05-13 22:26:27 UTC

Permalink

Post by Darshaka Pathirana
The subject says it all: I was trying to find out a short outline
why one should use the one or the other.
As far as I can unsterstand it after a short evaluation is that both
are able to do nearly the same. Both use debootstrap and are able to
define hooks and afterwards a ISO is created.
The advantage of grml-live seems to be the usage of the FAI-class
concept but debian-live seems to be the more "official" way to do it.
My motivation is a bit different than *-live and FAI provide. *-live
are intended to build a Live-CD and FAI deploys a system on a
running machine (by PXE or Boot-CD).
I do NOT need a bootable ISO. I need the possibility to install
Debian into a USB-Device or CF-Card. So I actually use the
base.tar.gz (created by FAI or by an other installation) to untar it
onto the target from my running system. Afterwards again some hooks
are run and the bootloader is installed. I think this is ridiculous!
There must be a better way.
Any thoughts about this?

Allright, some thoughts about this. :)

You're right, "debian-live seems to be the more "official" way to do
it" - that's its design goal. :) Whereas debian-live provides
official Debian builds (like "does a plain Debian work on my
system?"), grml-live focuses on user's (maybe very special) needs
(like "i need a system which is specialised for the needs of
sysadmins").

Notice that I'm biased as being the developer behind grml-live. ;)
But I personally don't see the projects as competitors but instead
I'm working together with upstream of debian-live on the underlying
technologies so we share development wherever possible.

I personally *love* the class concept of FAI. It gives me a big and
fast gun in combination with a swiss army knife so I can shoot on
every problem that might arise. :)

Regarding your needs: "I need the possibility to install Debian into
a USB-Device or CF-Card". Looking at the existing grml-technologies
there are different approaches available:

* grml2usb: install a grml ISO on a given device
* grml2hd: install a running grml system (nearly) 1:1 on a device
* grml-debootstrap: install *plain* Debian on a device

Depending on your exact use case the approach of grml2usb/grml2hd
might fit as well, though I think that either grml-debootstrap or
your FAI/base.tar.gz solution fit better.

In a customer project I'm for example using grml-debootstrap for
deploying Debian systems automatically, providing offline
installation (no network access available), DRBD deployment, setup
of SW-RAID, documentation of the hardware,...

But I guess you don't need all the fancy stuff overall, so if
FAI/dirinstall works fine, you chose the right way already. And if
you're not happy you can still consider switching to a different
approach. ;)

Hope this helps.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Darshaka Pathirana

2009-05-06 09:21:15 UTC

Permalink

Michael Prokop

2009-05-13 22:26:27 UTC

Permalink

Allright, some thoughts about this. :)

You're right, "debian-live seems to be the more "official" way to do
it" - that's its design goal. :) Whereas debian-live provides
official Debian builds (like "does a plain Debian work on my
system?"), grml-live focuses on user's (maybe very special) needs
(like "i need a system which is specialised for the needs of
sysadmins").

Notice that I'm biased as being the developer behind grml-live. ;)
But I personally don't see the projects as competitors but instead
I'm working together with upstream of debian-live on the underlying
technologies so we share development wherever possible.

I personally *love* the class concept of FAI. It gives me a big and
fast gun in combination with a swiss army knife so I can shoot on
every problem that might arise. :)

Regarding your needs: "I need the possibility to install Debian into
a USB-Device or CF-Card". Looking at the existing grml-technologies
there are different approaches available:

* grml2usb: install a grml ISO on a given device
* grml2hd: install a running grml system (nearly) 1:1 on a device
* grml-debootstrap: install *plain* Debian on a device

Depending on your exact use case the approach of grml2usb/grml2hd
might fit as well, though I think that either grml-debootstrap or
your FAI/base.tar.gz solution fit better.

In a customer project I'm for example using grml-debootstrap for
deploying Debian systems automatically, providing offline
installation (no network access available), DRBD deployment, setup
of SW-RAID, documentation of the hardware,...

But I guess you don't need all the fancy stuff overall, so if
FAI/dirinstall works fine, you chose the right way already. And if
you're not happy you can still consider switching to a different
approach. ;)

Hope this helps.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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Darshaka Pathirana

2009-05-06 09:21:15 UTC

Permalink

Michael Prokop

2009-05-13 22:26:27 UTC

Permalink

Allright, some thoughts about this. :)

You're right, "debian-live seems to be the more "official" way to do
it" - that's its design goal. :) Whereas debian-live provides
official Debian builds (like "does a plain Debian work on my
system?"), grml-live focuses on user's (maybe very special) needs
(like "i need a system which is specialised for the needs of
sysadmins").

Notice that I'm biased as being the developer behind grml-live. ;)
But I personally don't see the projects as competitors but instead
I'm working together with upstream of debian-live on the underlying
technologies so we share development wherever possible.

I personally *love* the class concept of FAI. It gives me a big and
fast gun in combination with a swiss army knife so I can shoot on
every problem that might arise. :)

Regarding your needs: "I need the possibility to install Debian into
a USB-Device or CF-Card". Looking at the existing grml-technologies
there are different approaches available:

* grml2usb: install a grml ISO on a given device
* grml2hd: install a running grml system (nearly) 1:1 on a device
* grml-debootstrap: install *plain* Debian on a device

Depending on your exact use case the approach of grml2usb/grml2hd
might fit as well, though I think that either grml-debootstrap or
your FAI/base.tar.gz solution fit better.

In a customer project I'm for example using grml-debootstrap for
deploying Debian systems automatically, providing offline
installation (no network access available), DRBD deployment, setup
of SW-RAID, documentation of the hardware,...

But I guess you don't need all the fancy stuff overall, so if
FAI/dirinstall works fine, you chose the right way already. And if
you're not happy you can still consider switching to a different
approach. ;)

Hope this helps.

regards,
-mika-
--
http://grml.org/ # Linux for texttool-users and sysadmins
http://wiki.grml.org/ # share your knowledge
http://grml.supersized.org/ # the grml development weblog
#grml @ irc.freenode.org # meet us on irc
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